i just wanted to introduce myself and say a big hello to all of my mentally diseased friends.. i say friends because i have been lurking for some time so it feels like home (us lurkers are a bit scared and cautious so it takes a while).
i won't bore you with too many details, but i am a born in, currently serving as the cobe of a congregation.
my wife and i have pioneered for the last 10 years and were shaken awake by that ridiculous 15th july 2013 wt about the generation and 1914.. my wife who is much smarter than me has questioned for years.
iwasblind . . .
I can very much identify with your situation. I am curious, though, how have you thus far sustained your numerous and demanding responsibilities as COBE (both in terms of shepherding and administration) while at the same time carrying the weight of your strongly expressed doubts and conclusions about the Watchtower Society and individual Witnesses? And how much longer do you think you can remain as COBE under these circumstances?
allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.
i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.
some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).
VIviane, cappytan, OUTLAW . . .
I've said my piece, you've each said yours. There will clearly be no agreement, which is obviously fine, but there's an obvious descending spiral in the things each of you are writing that approaches the level of obsession "with arguments and debates about words.These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, constant disputes" and are at best nothing more than "fights about words, something of no usefulness at all." (1 Timothy 6:4; 2 Timothy 2:14)
At that, and with the recognition that I certainly do not walk on water, I'll not be responding to either of you from here on out, as it honestly would not be foreseeably fruitful or of any real benefit. I do, though, wish you all blessings, and hope that you wish the same for me without qualification or condition, if you are disposed to do so.
allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.
i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.
some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).
Miss Behaving, what I do certainly appreciate is that you are at least delightfully rational (and with a good sense of humour), even when you have disagreed with a certain viewpoint. And yes, there were some posts that were kind, and I certainly expressed my gratitude to such ones (openly, and in some cases privately).
Thanks, and blessings.
allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.
i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.
some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).
cappytan . . .
For starters, what I wrote wasn't ad hominem. I was identifying the nature of Viviane's statements, not casting any aspersions on her character.
allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.
i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.
some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).
OUTLAW, with all due respect (and yes, even with a slight appreciation for your snark), given the very little I've mentioned about where I stand and why, you simply don't know enough about the details of my personal life and nature of my congregational involvement to draw the broad conclusions about me that you have. What the WTS is corporately does not make who JWs are communally, nor defines who I am personally.
Simple conclusions hoisted upon generalizations, while satisfying and convenient, rarely ever represent the complex realities of a matter.
allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.
i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.
some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).
Viviane, you wrote . . .
You posited a position that YOU don't agree with.
You claim to be a JW, which requires 100% agreement (at least publicly) with the GB, a position you disagree with.
You teach people the JW religion, yet discount it as false.
You proclaim faith in Jesus and to teach the truth, yet are actively involved in and claim to be a member of a religion that teaches the opposite of Jesus and obvious falsehoods.
What else are you but a troll?
...
You choose to remain part of and preach on behalf of a family destroying, pedophile protecting and family destroying organization even though you know better. It makes you very responsible.
Thanks for demonstrating my point about the pathological negativity and spiteful generalizations many exhibit on this forum.
allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.
i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.
some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).
A number of people here have, in their responses, accused me of "trolling" by virtue of my having posted this topic. I don't understand the accusation, given that it's quite untrue. As it is, it seems I am being called a "troll" by some merely because I expressed a position that several don't like and don't agree with. I didn't make my post to cause a stir. I simply shared a viewpoint. Many may find that viewpoint unpopular, but that doesn't make the one who posts that unpopular viewpoint a "troll."
I'm not the only one on this forum who is a currently active Witness. I'm not the only such Witness on this forum who disagrees with the Watchtower Society on its teachings and policies. I also know I'm not the only such Witness on this forum who still loves Jehovah's Witnesses, the community and Family of brothers and sisters.
While I understand that a great majority of active posters here are former Witnesses who engage mostly in anti-JW and anti-WTS sentiment of varying degrees (some presented rationally, some not), my understanding was that this was an open forum where former as well as active Witnesses can share their views and engage in discussions. Instead, it appears that only one prevailing viewpoint is permitted here by mass default. Deviation from that viewpoint invites a barrage of antipathy.
Obviously not all will agree with different viewpoints. But the toxicity exhibited in the responses to my post is rather astounding, ranging from outright venomous remarks, to broad-range assumptions about my character, to the strange notion that I am somehow blind and uninformed as to the beginnings of the Watchtower Society, the history of Jehovah's Witnesses over the past century, or the theology embraced by Witnesses. I am, I can assure all here, not uninformed on these matters at all.
All the ridicule has been bizarre, especially given that those casting the ridicule at me are in fact behaving in the exact same cult fashion that they accuse Jehovah's Witnesses of: acute intolerance of alternative viewpoints, broad categorization of others as "deluded" who hold to different viewpoints, mean-spiritedness, and deprecating by name-calling (i.e., Witnesses use the word "apostate," many folks on here use the word "troll").
The only difference is that where Witnesses engage in disfellowshipping, many here engage in outright flogging and crucifixion (figuratively speaking, of course) of those presenting alternate views, and done with a viciously disproportionate negativity.
I understand many here have gone through painful experiences with Jehovah's Witnesses. I honestly ache for them. But I, Jeramy, am not responsible for that pain. My otherwise good and happy experience as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, in spite of my dissidence, does not make me complicit in the pain caused to many by other Witnesses that such ones were once associated with. (Any more than my being a tax-paying American citizen makes me complicit in the wrongful deaths of innocent thousands at the hands of the U.S. military over the past thirteen years; other similar examples abound.)
I've encountered many people who have posted here telling their stories about why they left the community of Jehovah's Witnesses. And so I simply wanted to share my views on why I remain as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I did so rationally and respectfully. No agenda. Just . . . sharing.
Blessings to all.
allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.
i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.
some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).
Brock Talon, you wrote . . .
So, the individual German was either part of the solution, or they were part of the problem
This is a woefully broad oversimplification of a complex history, and is an affront to the truth of what happened in Germany and to the German people under Nazi rule. Yes, many Germans were indeed part of the problem. Yes, many Germans were indeed part of the solution. Some Germans were both (like Oskar Schindler, who was a member of the Nazi party and part of its manufacturing apparatus while at the same time a secret savior to hundreds of Jewish people). But most Germans were in fact captive, stuck, immobilized. Neither part of the problem or part of the solution. Such is the nature of captivity under a fascist regime during war time.
But as regards the "Nazi:WTS" analogy, your re-write of it is a clearly motivated reconstruction made to suit a broad anti-WTS and anti-JW formula. A telling factor revealing your motivation is your choice use of the phrase "innocent" Germans to analogously contrast your perception of "complicit" JWs. It demonstrates the inflexible two-dimensional "either/or" rule you employ (which, by example, is a rule Oskar Schindler could never fit into, considering he operated under a "both/and" process; both "not innocent" and "innocent"), which is unsustainable as a method of examining the multidimensional complexities that attend any human community (which Oskar Schindler does fit into), JWs or otherwise. It simply doesn't work, and as such your motivated reconstruction of the "Nazi:WTS" analogy, and thereby all the points you attempt to make by it, ultimately fails.
As such I refer you back to the analogy I presented yesterday.
You also wrote the following . . .
JWs are not similarly kept anywhere, except in their own minds, and choose to remain of their own free will (like you).
JWs DO HAVE to feed the WTS new victims or they are not in good standing (like you).
JWS DO give their money voluntarily, at minimum in literature purchases that funds the WTS machine (like you.)
JWs DO NOT work against the WTS and try to save anyone from it (like you.)
JWs don't hate the WTS and actually defend its teachings in private (like you on this board.)(Emphasis mine)
In each of your statements quoted above, you punctuated them with "(like you)," clearly inferring that you somehow have an insight into the nature of my personal, social, financial, and congregational standing and activities as they relate to Jehovah's Witnesses and the WTS. For you to draw such inferences is wildly presumptuous, to say nothing of blatantly arrogant (especially in that you manufacture those inferences in an attempt to pigeonhole me into your broad and oversimplified anti-JW construct). In reality, you know nothing whatsoever about the nature of my personal, social, financial, or congregational standing and activities.
allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.
i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.
some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).
bellasmile, thanks for your kind and wise words, which, as it turns out, are among the only kind and wise words that have been given in response here. With a couple exceptions, the vast majority of responses have been, shall we say, less than civil. Toxic, in fact.
You made a great point when you wrote the following:
I know if someone truly "knew" in their own heart and are at peace with leaving they would not be here trying to hate on someone else's views.
True indeed.
allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.
i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.
some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).
The OP lost me as soon as I saw that he couldn't spell "Jeremy".My name is, in fact, spelled Jeramy (with an "a" before the "m"). It's not an entirely uncommon spelling.
